Wednesday, May 1, 2013

How do I make Blood Angels work again?

My friend Matt was inconsolable when 6E came out and he had gotten a few games in.  He really did NOT like the impact of random charge distances (never mind that many impossible charges were now possible).  He also thought for sure that Snap Firing on the defensive was simply making this more impossible. 

It wasn't until we really sat down and worked on his list that the light started to come back. 

Now this was a guy who had such a zealous love of the game that we would talk for hours literally about Warhammer.  His passion for it was the equal of mine and that's saying a lot, because I've poured a lot of love into it.

So with that in mind, I thought I would address the question of how Blood angles can survive in the post Tau era.

The Ties that Bind
Sanguinary Priests are mandatory as a way to reduce losses to snap firing.  They are good for all kinds of reasons of course, BUT most important perhaps now is their positive impact in eliminating the sparse but sometimes dangerous snap fire you will face.  This is accentuated with the new Tau Dex out.  It just is no longer an option any more.  Any assault unit needs to be near one.  Corbulo is the hardest of the hard when it comes to these and he is easily one of the best assets you can add and probably the best upgrade of all time!  He's fantastic in every game I have witnessed, and I can't recommend him enough when you go into the maw of the enemy.

Death from Above
Barrage weaponry is now more important than ever.  I never thought I would say this, but Whirlwinds are one of the cheapest counters to Tau, Necron Swarms, large Chaos Daemon groups, IG ADL Gunlines and so on.  The Vortex (which is what I call a cluster of Fire warriors arranged so they can all be close enough to the Ethereal) can be destroyed or disrupted using the lowly Whirlwind.  This "vortex"will be one of the chief threats worth disrupting if you plan to assault!  Fortunately Whirlwinds are relatively low cost, and it may well hurt some crusty unchangable vets of the game to even consider the Whirlwind, but as the new armies have come out, barrage weaponry has looked better and better.  With the advent of allies into Marine lists, the possibility of Marine forces having squishier components has increased as well making whirlwinds useful against the allies of the Imperium.  Pinning is an excellent reason to take Whirlwinds as well but really, it is the ability they have to break up and disrupt the enemy that will be valuable to an assault based army that are typically hurt by castling.  Castles are a real problem for Blood Angels in 6E.

Fill the Grid Square With Spent Uranium.
6E is about shooting.  Modern warfare is, why wouldn't 40K be?  Yet the strength of the Blood Angels is melee.  Knowing that the enemy must now be whittled before assaulting, the army must allocate more resources to this vital duty. 
The reliable and doughty Baal Predator has never failed to be a serious Dakka machine.  155 points gets you a hefty 10 shots a round on the MOVE, plus a Hunter Killer Missile for seeking first blood.  These are a must have in the Blood Angel arsenal so that charge distances, when reached, will not be met with as much Snap Fire resistance.  In addition, a full set of these will take down a Land Raider without the need for lower ROF weapons, leaving you less vulnerable to armies that DON'T have AV 14.  12 TL Rending Assault Cannon shots is a load.  That equates to around 2 rends a round on the average with much better range than a Meltagun.  Melta bombs will help your men compensate when and if the cannons fail but better to start early on those hulls.

Boots on the Ground...or Chutes in The Air
No more bloated units.  6E is no longer tolerant of bulked up units.  Scoring units need to remain cheap, survivable above all else and mobile.  Since Blood Angel offenses often start and end with Assault Squads, you need all of them you can afford.
To that end my recommendation here is to take the Power axe+ Meltabomb option but stick to the Flamers as weapons, which compliments the role of assault unit.  Let other units handle the load on killing tanks or just use grenades.  Grenades are MUCH more effective against vehicles now.  Specialists are needed for the specialist work.  So get as many boots on the ground or chutes in the air as you can, no less than three scoring units, and load up your support units for what they do best:  support.

Fear is the Mind Killer
There is nothing I can think of that strikes more fear into someone than the approach of a pair of AV13 Furioso Buzzsaws taking cover behind their pods and ready to strike.  Nothing says "wah crap" like they do.  They will take immense pressure off the rest of the army as the enemy single mindedly allows its well deserved fear of what is to come consume them, turning every gun that matters at the Furiosos.  Naturally they may succeed!  But the extra round of movement they afford you could be the deciding factor in the end.  I've never seen a force happy to see one, let alone two.  So bring the fear and let their trepidation protect your more important elements (or pay the inevitable price of hubris!).  The more time you can whittle the enemy, the better off the Assault Squads will be when they make their move.

Warlords
Keeping Warlords and major components alive is important but don't forget to use them!  Psykers will help protect your men from the powerful Psychic attacks the enemy can bring.  Having a Psyker hood nearby really helps.  A librarian is a very good leader for Blood Angels.  Mephiston is clearly the scariest, but is expensive. When pinched for points, a normal one WILL do.  I'd consider them as excellent first choices for HQ's, whichever version of Witch you go with.

Allies:
Allies are not to be forgotten here.  Eldar can make a great addition to the army, as can the Rangers.  with a unit of Rangers and a Farseer, your Blood angels HQ can be QUITE inexpensive.  Shutting down Tyranid Psykers in particular is HIGHLY advisable, as most recent successful tourney builds for them feature it PROMINENTLY, and other factions have made no less impressive use of the many disciplines available.  Chaos in particular could be quite affected by your choice of Eldar Allies of Convenience.

A List You Can Use
So here is a list you can use to implement these ideas and turn what was once a very hard charging army into a hard charging army again!  The only difference is, we're not going to charge first last and always.  We are going to let our dispensable fellow units do some ground and pound work first.


WhirlWind (Hunter Killer Missile)

WhirlWind (Hunter Killer Missile)

Baal Predator (Heavy Bolter Sponsons)

Baal Predator (Heavy Bolter Sponsons)

Baal Predator (Hunter Killer Missile, Heavy Bolter Sponsons)

8 Assault Marines on foot (Flamer, Power Axe+Meltabomb)
Drop Pod

10 Assault marines with JumpPacks (2 x Flamers, Power Axe+Meltabomb)

10 Assault marines with JumpPacks (2 x Flamers, Power Axe+Meltabomb)

JumpPack Priest with MeltaBomb

JumpPack Priest with MeltaBomb

Brother Corbulo

Furioso Dreadnought (Blood Talons, heavy Flamer, MagnaGrapple)
DropPod

Furioso Dreadnought (Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer, MagnaGrapple)
Drop Pod

Librarian in Power Armor

How To Use The List

Tactics:
In the Relic, the Drop Pods form an immediate barrier between the enemy and the Relic and two Seriously fierce guardians to protect it while the troops arrive.  All units come forward to blockade the enemy and drag the Relic back behind the wall of steel.  No enemy can castle against you and win once you've done this.  Threats from barrage and DS units will be your only concern, but fortunately Corbulo and his unit can form a very tenacious blocker unit, and the tanks do as well.  It's a lot of steel to get through.

5 objectives:
This is where the pounding effect of all your shooting will have a noticeable effect.  As neither side will immediately snatch and grab, the point of the mission will be First Blood and then Troop obliteration.  Corbulo, who is nearly impossible to kill can go get Line Breaker while the rest of the force hangs back.  Furiosos will drop to BRACKET the battlefield and keep everything going to the center where your stream of led can do the most good.  Jump Assault Troops will be tasked with snatching whichever flank objective makes the most sense.  Pinning enemies in place later in the game could have a catastrophic effect on the enemies game, so Whirlwinds may have a bigger part to play than it seems here.  concentrate them on the troop units closest to the objective they can most EASILY take with a single move+run. 

Big Guns Never Tire:
in that mission, you have well hidden scoring barrage makers, given cover by the girth of buildings, hills and of course your own armored hulls.  In this mission you are especially well off because the enemy has to REEEEALY come out of their trees and hunt you.  Here again patience will pay better than aggression as you have speed on your side.  So long as you keep all your units within striking distance of objectives near the end and concentrate firepower on targets at a time, the enemy will have no choice but to go all out at your back line possibly sacrificing shooting to do so.  Whirlwinds staying alive in this mission may even be more important than the lives of the Assault Squads, because the Assault Squads can be tied in melee but the Whirlwinds cant.  Keeping them frosty and mobile to steal objectives is probably a good idea. let the assault squads get butchered and do some butchering.  the extra kill points makes this all the more true.  The Furiosos should also be able to assist in keeping them free.  Enemy shooting will be the main threat so deploy carefully and plan your endgame with the Whirlwinds in mind as your game winners.

Scouring Mission
The Scouring is tough because your Baals are going to be priorities in ALL your missions.  they just do a lot of damage when focused on a target and an enemy could lose an entire troop choice per round if they don't handle it.  So they will.  The outflanking ability of the Baal's may be tested here.  it will keep them off the board if that seems wise UNTIL you can get first blood.  In anticipation of this mission, I put two of the HK missiles on the Whirlwinds instead of the Baal's.
Line Breaker may come from Assault marines, Furiosos or the outflanking Baal's, but you are going to have to play for time on this mission until your full arsenal is available.
First Blood can come from the Whirlwinds or the Furioso MagnaGrapples.  Either way it will be dicier to get so in this one, you are going to want to be thinking about that.  You are exposed more in this mission but also have an enormous amount of scoring units available.  Take just one more objective than the enemy and the loss of all 3 Baal's will not trouble you so if the enemy is built such that you think you can get away with it, go ahead and just overwhelm the enemy with scoring units they must kill but remember:  by making shots in round 1, you're exposed in round one when the enemy is strongest; and if not going first I would most definitely outflank them and play the long game.

Kill Points
This army is TOUGH.  Armour and FnP everywhere you look, AV 12 is the worst you have and that's going to be on them fast.  At 14 KP's you're average in number, not too high.  So the give and take should not be a disadvantage for you.  Not that it needs to be said but...kill the soft units first, attack from one side to limit return fire and do not relent or split up your effort.  Attack like a swarm.  speed is on your side.  They can't run for long.  Form an armoured wall the Assault marines can assault from behind and remember:  enemies can only hit what they can see on snap fire.  Use the Furioso's to cut off escape on their other side.

Objectives(3) +KP (1)
I would play this much like the Kill Points mission.  by attacking from a flank you effectively cut the enemy off from objectives behind you.  This will require the Dreadnoughts to drop in a slightly different way.  Instead of on the opposite flank, they will need to be more centered, to cut off enemies who swing out ward to gain outside objectives. You dont want them jetting down the unprotected middle from you.

Final Thoughts
Obviously we could read and write here all night to cover every contingency but this may help some Blood Angels look at their lists a little differently.

I did not include the Farseer + Rangers in the list but those are totally viable defensive options that would take the place of a troops choice, but leave you precariously perched as far as scoring units goes in some missions. 

A Space Wolf Rune Priest is a Battle Brother and less expensive than a Farseer, plus their troops can be used as scoring to the rear.  For 300 Points you can have a Primaris Psyker, meltavets and a Vendetta if anti-aircraft is of concern (though the assault cannons are not bad anti-aircraft and they can knock a plane out of the sky).  Having another Force Weapon never hurts ones feelings when dealing with Tyranids.

A Dark Angels Librarian is very good compared the the Blood Angels one and adds more possible powers to the mix.  Added bonus:  their troops can take a skyfire missile, which makes them a very attractive option to replace Corbulos bodyguard...however...  they cant mount up in the pod, so it would change your strategy to do this.  Nonetheless in the name of exploring options, I mention it here.\

Good luck Blood Angel players.  I literally hate playing against Blood Angles (well...Mephiston specifically)more than any other force (that's a compliment) and hope that this will help my blood Angel buddies.  Just a little paradigm shifting to be done.  =)

More About Melee Oriented Armies




19 comments:

  1. Was actually tempted to do a Vindicator x3 list. Deploy 12" in. Then move 12" and if all goes well you should have 3 Str 10 blasts hitting on turn 1. Was going to add 3 Baals too. In my opinion blood angels strength now lies in their speed of their vehicles. Be prepared for name calling if u bring 3 Vindicator list :)

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  2. I am now prepared. Thank you for fair warning. Lol.

    The upsides to a Vindicator are very good. Tough armor, a weapon system to die for and of course it is fast. For all those reasons i say Yahoo!

    In the short term, that vehicle will yield some nice results. Been on the receiving end myself. The extra points could come in part off the Furioso heavy Flamer and Magnagrapple, though that would be a tough trade. Losing your First Blood boosts, the HK missiles would get you the rest of the way perhaps. If you do that, you won't have the Backfield heavy later most likely, and you may well scatter and get little or nothing for your efforts if you face an army like GK that feast on short range targets. Nonetheless, the saturation would be greater and more AP 1 is never a bad thing! Sniping would not work though and that was a primary motivator for taking a Whirlwind, remember.


    I feel like the enemy can if going first or second, prepare for such a tactic through deployment. DOUBLY so if YOU go first and as a Blood Angel going first is usually best.
    You may catch a guy or two unprepared. I have feasted on the mistakes of others many a time myself. But if we are talking about tourneys...

    I think you could add two Vindicators though and try it. I think it would be worthwhile to at least see if the hulls can stay intact long enough to get the damage output you want from them. Gonna have to watch lines of sight though. The more armor you have the more this becomes an issue. Still...

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  3. Josef, you bring up some great points about Blood Angels. The article was a fun read, and got my creative juices pumping, as I haven't dwelt on BA in quite some time. I'm going to jot down some thoughts from the top of my head, bear with me.

    As mentioned above BA have two primary traits: The army is assault-centric, and, BA vehicles are fast. 6th has changed assault, and it takes a lot more finesse to be successful in assault based tactics than it did in 5th. Fast vehicles should be considered; namely those with AV13 front armor.

    Fast Vindicators with a dozer blade provide your opponent with bad choices- essentially, a 36" range str 10, AP1 large blast; ordinance. Unfortunately, demolisher cannons are not granted the barrage special rule, which means that casualties are taken from models closest to the tank- something that should be considered.

    Whirlwinds do provide the BA with a barrage/ordinance weapon, but, are only AV11 on front and sides (AV 10 rear) which makes them little better than a Rhino. In my experience fielding Rhinos in 6th, they gave my opponent first blood every game. BA Whirlwinds are 10 points more expensive than their vanilla counterparts (I assume the premium paid is for the fast special rule, and you don't need a fast Whirlwind), and cost 25 points more than DA Whirlwinds.

    It would be more cost efficient to field Whirlwinds from either mentioned codices to save points, not to mention the fact that one could ally guard and pay a slight premium for a Manticore, or two. Four, 1D3 Str 10, AP4 barrage/ordinance large blasts are attractive. Especially when you add the fact that Manticores are AV12 in front. One more alternative to be considered is the Thunderfire Cannon. For 100 points, one can purchase a piece of artillery that comes with a Tech Marine that can bolster one ruin. The T-Cannon provides a 60' range Str 6, AP 5 blasts x 4, or Str 5 Ap 6 blasts x 4 *ignores cover. There is a third alternative that inflicts the tremor special rule onto a targeted unit in exchange for a reduced str hit.

    I don't particularly care for Baal Predators: Their cost is high in relation to their weapons. Probably b/c you're paying for scout...I'd probably stick to one (if any at all).

    Other random things to consider regarding the BA 'dex:

    Scout squads loaded up in a Stormraven can take advantage of their special rule; move through cover when 'skies of blood'ing' out of a 'raven. That sort of precision strike makes late game objective grabs/contests pretty cool.

    BA Sgts. can take dual hand flamers thanks to the gunslinger rule.

    Assault Squads may take Land Raiders as a dedicated transport, and receive 35 points toward that purchase.

    Sternguard are available, and coupled with Corbulo (and even a libby) makes for a real nasty unit to drop pod on an opponent.

    As you mentioned Furioso Dreads with claws and heavy flamers are scary, now that there isn't as much melta on the board. Frag cannons shouldn't be discounted, either in 6th edition.

    In closing, my thoughts regarding list building have kept BA as an allied attachment- usually to a Space Marine primary- especially since vanilla marines inherited the Storm Raven, and the Storm Talon's costs were decreased.

    In closing, all of this theory-hammer has me jonesing to get a game or two in!



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  4. Great commentary! Just keep in mind I weas sort of focusing on the true Blood Angel force, and peppering and salting with some ally suggestions. This wasn't really a true look into all those other options.

    First I have said tha tVindicators could work. Here is the reason why I intentionally didn't include them: Enemies do space out, take cover and deploy to minimize both weapon systems when they see them. They know its coming. So while the destructive potential is there, for a round, side arcs are not hard to get to when a vehicle pushes forward as this one might be wont to do. The survivability of the Vindicator might or might NOT be better. But in any even, it will threaten far more than the Whirlwind and will be as much a First Blood candidate as and other.

    My feeling is, a Whirlwind will not be where the enemy will invest its attacks for First Blood. The reason is called TWO furiosos and their Drop pods. There is a fairly immediate threat to deal with. in subsequent rounds it seems to me with this list that it will be increasingly hard to justify chasing after an 85 point tank. Make they will. Maybe. But its way back there, behind a bunch of stuff so it might not be the target of choice.

    Also, we want pinning and sniping ability which the Whirlwind provides. Can't get it from the Vindicators. and I just cant imagine two Vindicators not being a fairly high item on the enemy priority list. they wont be firing all game like a Whirlwind pair may, potentially. But again, I am NOT saying that Vindicators are bad. they just may not give us the desired effect we were hoping for in the list.A Whirlwinds if they could be taken in Squadrons would be ideal. I suppose you could take at least ONE DA Whirlwind. I did mention them as a possible ally.

    I am surprised you dont like Baal Predators, but thjey are very effective. Main battle tanks are never cheap.

    Storm Ravens awere intentionally omitted here because of the points sync and frankly, it takes away a lot of points that could be used for Assault Marines or their support. With no guarantee when it can come on and contribute, the Assaulters are kind of left to twiddle their thumbs and suffer attrition. I think a Storm Raven requires a whole other strategy and list plan in 6E. We all know what it does but do you know how many times in the last three matches against Blood angles that I blew it up before anyone disembarked? Every time. It was an albatross.

    Frag cannons was a great comment also. I agree. I lament that they must replace Blood Talons, but Frag Cannons are pretty devastating to tightly packed groups. Immolates em nice and crispy and sets them up for charges. I was STRONGLY considering them for this list. The need to deal with Terminators sort of drives me to keep blood claws on their but it was definitely not an easy decision on that.

    Get some games in. Maybe try this list and lets see more Blood Angel faith returning.

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  5. pardon the double post, but Land Raiders are actually a potential counter to Tau because they Deep Strike. I'm not sure Iwould want to have that as your list all the time But... Even rolling forward, they could potentially be a worthwhile thought. I've never thought much of Land Raiders, but as 6E moves along, I can't deny that they seem to be answer aganst some pretty tough stuff. Question is,are they a good idea in the majority of games? hmm...

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  6. Nice, well-reasoned bit of writing (also enjoyed the comments).

    I'm working on a 1500/1750 4-pod list that steers away from large numbers of ASM. Perhaps you could comment?

    Warlord and bodyguard (deployed turn one):

    1x Librarian (jump pack, force axe, bolt pistol; forewarning, misfortune or prescience)
    1x Sang. Priest (jump pack, chainsword, bolt pistol)
    10x Assault Marines (2x flamer, power sword, melta bombs)


    [if 1750, use the 250pts for mech]

    Assault pods:

    10x Sternguard (8x combi-plasma, 2x heavy flamer, melta bombs), Drop pod
    9x Death Company (9x bolter, 9x chainsword),
    1x Librarian (bolt pistol; forewarning or prescience), Drop pod

    Reserve pods:

    10 Tactical Marines (8x bolter, 1x flamer, 1x lascannon, melta bombs)
    10 Tactical Marines (8x bolter, 1x flamer, 1x lascannon, melta bombs)

    I have a pair of Fragiosos that I haven't finished painting yet, so I'm not too concerned with working them in as right now (I'm a returning player heh).

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  7. Well, It's 1500 points so it definitely can afford to go more body heavy.

    You can definitely afford to lose a Death Company member or two if it means a Sanguinary Priest for the Sternguard. No question. Sternguard are too spendy not to invest in their future. Death Company do well even in small numbers. Sternguard can afford to go with the smaller number of dudes as well, even if it costs a Heavy Flamer but gains them the Priest (who by the way is no slouch in combat)

    Cant recommend the Furioso's enough. At least one Fragioso is totally justifiable, with a pair of Talon versions to accompany them always being a good idea too! AV 13 Dreads in your face is no joke.


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  8. I like your OP about the tactics however I would like some opinions given the following info. I have been told I play in a very high Meta which includes several GT players and winners. They play lots of lists like 6 flyers (necron flying circus) multiple helldrakes, lots of min / maxing. We also allow forgeworld models, lists.

    The furioso Blood talons are AP3 not AP2. DCCW (fist) is AP2, Talons follow the lightning claw rules (AP3 re-roll failed to wounds) Termies eat them for lunch. I found this out the hard way with a BA contemptor and lucius drop pod.

    I have played with 2 Stormravens and you HAVE to put in a coms link or Damocles Rhino for re-rolling reserves. Still then you have at least 1 turn without att that firepower on the board. My new list I am toying with is similar in your approach of using ground based weapons to snap fire at flyers. Str6 assault cannons though I don't think pose enough threat. You need 6's to hit and 5's or 6's to damage. I am going with a Spartan with 4 TL lasscannons and a lascannon Predator with las sponsons. Still 6's to hit but 2's or 3's to damage. They can sit in the backfield and throw shells downrange as well.

    Corbulo I also feel is one of the best things we have but am torn how to use. Drop pod with Sternguard or protect an assault squad keeping the scoring troops alive.

    I don't see much castling. Unless it is a horde army as they have a ton of models and not a lot of room.

    Thoughts?

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  9. Ley me preface by saying this: Dual Foirce org armies are just silly. Most competitions dont use it. So if you're playing in a meta that does, then there isn't a great answer because DFO is simply broken and adding Forge World to DFO is just a power gamers wet dream. There's no other way to describe it. Going first means victory in a large majority of those games so if that's the meta you play in, play with Asdrubial Vect, because you're gonna' need it.

    But having said that...A few questions:

    1. Have you been focusing your fire power and attention on scoring choices. One mistake I see in my opponents is that they spend time trying to kill "stuff", pairing the best weapon to kill the best target etc... But what they forget pretty consistently until the game is getting late is that the "stuff" on the board is window dressing for the REAL threat: scoring units. So I have to ask how much focus you're putting on the scoring units. Seems an obvious thing to ask but...

    2. Is your army using the clock to its advantage? Armies that reserve can benefit from NOT coming in too early as well as COMING in early. I refer to it as reverse deployment. Basically:
    All units move forward. Units engage and tear through the first layer. reserves come in and cart the troops away while the "extras close the gap behind them. then a final push once the enemy is tied up. With Storm Ravens, sometimes instead of troop delivery they can be seen as troop STORAGE for after they have had a fight and are ready to fall into objective only mode. If you deliver them WITH the Storm Raven, the storm Raven garners more shots early. Later on when the enemy has been de-fanged is a better time to involve the Flyers if you can. the chances of losing them becomes small as does the chances of them not doing their ultimate duty: dropping poeple off as the end game. Use the clock. Count the turns and push the field with what you'd normally carry in the Ravens, let theenemy blunt itself on your shoal and then waste their efforts be coming to take your men out of harms way only to drop them off in the end to ocntest or win.

    3. Do people in your meta let ytou use the new Quad Lascannons fortification? Because that is an answer for flyers, and its fairly expensive but if people are taking stuff like what you're describing, its time to take the kid gloves off.

    4. You asked about corbulo. Generally he's leading a troops choice for best effect. his nigh indestructible armor soaks a boatload of enemy dice and preserves the position of your spearhead. Scoring units are the best target, period and when you can protect them with a guy like him? Holy cow. Do it.

    5. The cannons? Here's some math. 3 Bhaals average roughly 4 hits on flyers in a turn at STR 6 rending. In addition, they can fire Heavy Bolters at it which is 3 more. That's actually a fair number of chances to do something.

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  10. So The answer is Yes It is a power gamers Wet dream as you say. I personally enjoy the fluff and cool models while trying to find a way to win with the units I like. This doesn't work well most of the time, lol.

    answers

    1. I generally focus on the things that will hurt me or my scoring troops the most first, then their troops.

    2. Not sure how to answer this other than no one brings any units inside a storm raven on from reserve.....it's pretty much handing the enemy a ton of free points.

    3. No one has them yet but they are allowed, I think GW released this because of the flying circus stuff out there.

    4. Corbulo is golden, the problem is no jet pack so I tend to either stick him with a unit of ASM in a pod (wish our pods held 12 not 10)or a land raider

    5. I played today with a spartan and las predator and they tore through stuff, I kept the ASM inside until things were a bit safer. I was playing an Eldar list with a ton of shooting.

    As far as i was aware DFO was allowed everywhere if the tourney was 2k points as that are the rules in the BRB. Forgeworld being the hit n miss thing. I just love their models.

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  11. DFO falls under the category of "oops" by GW. Every meta is different and its not "wrong" to play DFO. If your local meta finds it to be perfectly fine, then cool. I just dont see the point, to be honest. Whoever goes first has such an immense advantage in DFO that doesn't really exist in SFO. In SFO, I go second by choice eveery time pretty much, but wouldn't even considr it in DFO. So like I said, if its DFO, Asdrubiel Vect is the best character in the game.

    1. Next game you play, relentlessly pound troops alone. See the impact it has on how the enemy plays. It cant be described on a blog. Just try it. Also, use your tanks and dReads and pods to mask the approach of troops so yt

    2. I was more refering to the tactic of giving the enemy a target to fire at with the express intent of hiding it later, thus ablating the enemy shooting. Storm Ravens are an example since you play With as many as two, but not the only way to do it.

    3. Might wanna invest in those. 200 points if Im not mistaken but they dont have to be manned and they are really no less expensive than a lot of other measures you could take and it frees your hands to advance as a good Blood Angel should. Perfect for Flyer metas. But the Saber platforms might be another excellent allied option sicne you do indulge in Forge World. Even the reviled Hydra is a pretty decent measure which can be RESERVED and then brought in to deal with the enemy flyer spam. A pair of Vindetta beat out the new shooting platform every day of the week though. FAR less expensive than a Storm Raven and hey, what blood angel couldn't use some cheapo parachuting troops to augment their scoring ability?

    4. You're using Corbulo correctly. Pods allow him to do the most possible for his men. Really think highly of Pods when it comes to him. Land Raiders work too.

    5. high volume weapons can work as anti-air. Volume of fire solves a lot of problems really. Its what this example list uses. I think it's the answer if you're not playing a stagnant army. I assume yours is push-push-push like most blood Angels.

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  12. My experience is that reserving units with BA and then trying to push forward is a recipe for getting shredded by 6th edition shooting. The BA don't have the model count to be reserving very much at all.

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  13. Pods do reserve but come in turn one. This army really just reserves one unit. that unit is burly and real hard to kill and will likely be protected as much by that realization as it will be target priority. So while you ARE playing reserves, you kind of arent. You're just getting there faster after a nice and nasty fusilade.

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  14. Where are we on the people who took this toi heart. What have you been learning in your games using this template, if anything?

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  15. I've started using the list you posted, but I need to drop it to 1750 as that's the next tournament size round these parts. Any pointers?

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    1. Glad to hear it. I hope its proving adaptable.

      At 1750 points, I would drop a Sanguinary Priest (80), and a Furioso+Pod (185). At lower points, you're facing less stuff and its possible that the need for a second Furioso may not be AS pressing, especially with the oppressive fussilade my army puts out from tanks. That fusilade remains potend and is faced with eaier numbers to whittle.
      That gives you a few free points to spend. Hunter Killer Missiles are never a bad idea.

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  16. As a side note, this post has become far and away the most popular of all my blog posts. Interesting. There seem to be a lot of people interested in making them work. anyone had other good success stories?

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  17. What would you change in this list for 7th?

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    1. Ah that is an excellent question. The Librarian obviously loses something here and the loss of p[inning that Barrage weapons suffered in 7E takes SOME of the cool factor away from them (though mostly the reasons for keeping them are the same). Mephiston can now be joined it appears and there are other considerations.

      So I think we will definitely need to do a rework and i may make it a blog entry once the rumored codex drops. It might be premature to post on that until we know more about those changes. Having said that this list probably still works very well. The Whirlwinds now affect MULTIPLE levels in buildings, you still want psyker defense for the units, now more than ever so a Librarian still seems appropriate, though a hooded one would be better, and the craziness of Furiosos is still crazy. I'll ponder this question though...

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