Yup. In other words, 6th Editions effect on mankind.
In the dark future there is only War and these two conditions. i know that a lot of people have it just by reading about a million blogs and forums every day.
As the Day of Reckoning approaches and as all the online experts and pundits begin to sweat as their empire build on superlative statements about the game is about to crumble, I'd like to reflect a little bit here.
First, I started playing in 3rd Edition, the very tail end of it. So I went into the game buying stuff for a game I knew would be changing very soon and I think that allows me to speak about the Neophobia issue. Frankly, I couldn't care less. I had done nothing but lose in 3rd Edition (admittedly, maybe a dozen games before the changeover) and could only hope that the pile of plastic and metal I invested in would grow more entertaining.
And it did. the Pac-man assault rules where an orc horde could eat two units a round were gone and with it my nightmares began to subside. But The thing about the change in general was, the game was so much better than it was in 3E. So many positive changes happened in 4E and i got the feeling at that time that GW really was paying attention to what was going on. At that time I never envisioned that codex's would grow progressively older without support. That was the one dissatisfaction I had was the realization that new codex's weren't coming nearly soon enough. Nonetheless, i enjoyed the game a lot and the addiction had begun.
When 5E came out I was blwon away by how much better it was and the missions were entirely acceptable. Even the "my house, your house" mission wasn't bad as long as you weren't busy being wracked with Metathesiophobia. 5th Edition took it to yet another level and codex's started to come out a little bit more frequently it seemed like to me.
Now 6th Edition is staring us in the face and the codex creep that i really never put ANY stock in til I saw the Blood Angel codex (and by then I'd been playing for what, 7 years?) and now the Grey Knights, and people are asphyxiating over its delivery. People are already talking about quitting the hobby over price increases and over the new rules...and not a single legitimate indicator of what they will be has really dropped!
So what is causing all this neophobia? The internet of course. So many false rumors and half truths have been spread, made up or disguised as coming from "a good source" or just are misinformation campaigns, that people are literally getting worn down emotionally over the whole thing and its just overexposure to it thats causing all these doubts.
The bigger source of concern comes from 8th Edition Fantasy. The presentation was incredible but the rules were botched in a couple very important places and it decimated the Fantasy playing communities in a lot of stores around the world. LOTS of people quit playing. I feel like that is the primary contributing factor to peoples trepidation towards a 6th Edition.
i don't know what to expect but i know this: worrying about what may or may never come does not add one day to your life. Let it go peeps. Stop working yourselves up into a furor over it and just wait. The bad stuff will likely only be half as bad as you thought and the good stuff will be 50% better than you hoped and inbetween you'll have a whole new game to play.
And although one can easily argue that they "overdid it" on the Blood Angels and Grey Knights, their track record of improvement overall has NOT been worth yof the level of concern people seem to be experiencing.
Chill out and get ready,cause your chance to be the next Tony Kopach is coming. No one will be ahead o you in games knowledge. No one will know the rules better than you anymore. here's your chance to be every bit the expert those "experienced" players seem to be, and for you to get your mind generating new strategies and tactics that you can teach each other. The reformation is coming. Embrace it.
The new rules are a welcome change for me. The price increase, on the other hand, is going to limit my desire to invest in different armies. We will know officially in 4 days what the actual % will be, but if there are any truth in the leaked dealer price lists- there is a great disparity of price increase between certain plastic kits.
ReplyDeleteNow, to speculate on the 6E. If the rules are any less competitive, 'more gray', or otherwise more beer and pretzel-y, then I will be looking at other game systems. I want clear concise rules that players can muddle as much as they desire for fun. I want my spending power to remain somewhat virile, and it may come to pass that investing in a different game or Game Company will be the resolution to those concerns.
I'm researching two candidates at the moment: Dust Warfare and Flames of War. From the outside looking in, both games seem to have very concise rules and support tournament play.
If I have to give up the homogenized fluff of Warhammer 40K to satisfy these desires then so be it. I'll Keep my BA army, and discontinue collecting and investing in GW product.
I'm going to be blunt here: I am highly dissatisfied with Games Workshop as a Company.
Well the models have gotten better and better and thus more worth collecting. The core rules have improved and it really is the codex's that everyone seems to be so incredibly upset with.
ReplyDeleteAll I am saying is that the core ruleset itself has never not improved from its previous state. My encouragement is to reserve judgement and not get on the hater bandwagon. That's the message here. No one gets angry about something they dont care about, so you obviously care what happens to this 6E. You're hoping that it turns out well so you CAN enjoy the models you invested in.
As for other systems: I have a great fondndess for several. Dust does nothing for me really and it's one of the VERY few games I haven't committed money to...and that's saying something because I get involved in every damn thing! The Flames of War game is very engaging and I play it weekly now barring any unforseen happenings. In fact im going to a tournament in two days.
Even if another system were better, it matters little to me. If both are fun, I'd play both. I don't think comparing them really means anything because they are so different and played for totally differnt simulations. Can't play aliens with yer German Panzers. Just saying. =).
My last thought: I don't really get why the company matters at all. Seriously. The game is all I care about. If prices are the issue, check out what models cost. This model is a 1/35th scale World War II model, about the scale of most Warhammer tanks. Price? $86:
http://www.internethobbies.com/drar1tiilapr1.html
Here's another one for $28, a 1/35 Scale Israeli Tank M1 Super Sherman:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=fK9&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=1:35+scale+models&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1366&bih=575&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=17171200798837024077&sa=X&ei=8x6_T7DmDIWfiAKrtOiGCA&ved=0CLEBEPMCMAI
As you can see these are companies who build models and dont do ANY of the gaming side of it. And this is what they charge!
Battlefront, maker of the Flames of War game charges $70 for a squadron of 4 tiny Panther G models. $14 for a model you can fit 3 of in one of your hands. From a purely mechanical standpoint, that's not very good value for the amount of material even though it would be a lot of your army to have those in the army.
I'm just sugesting we keep perspective and that requires us to look around at what is being charged everywhere for the stuff.
If one is already dissatisfied it would seem one would be doing nothing but looking forward to the possible improvements of 6E. I'm saying to look forward ot it instead of soomsaying it already which a lot of people seem to be doing.
As an aside, are you referring to Dust Tactics (the board game), or the recently released Dust Warfare? Dust Warfare is the table top version of Tactis recently released by FFG. I can understand your sentiment if referring to Tactics, as that is technically a board game and doesn't hold up against table-top games such as 40K, WM/Hordes, and FoW.
ReplyDeleteI do not have the time or money to invest in multiple game systems (as much as I wish it were different)- as you can well attest. My 40K time is practically non-existent, but that doesn't diminish my fondness of table-top gaming any less. It does force me, however, to choose and invest carefully in the hobby- hence my question. I am looking for an equally fun and strategic game, perhaps with better or more concise rules that promotes tournament play (I am not a tournament player, but I would love to be at some point) in the event I decide to break from 40K.
A Company's reputation means everything to me and that is one aspect where our opinions' differ. If a Company lacks integrity, I can't get behind it- and in return refuse to support said Company financially. Regardless of how good or tempting their product is. That doesn't automatically vilify Games Workshop, in my opinion. However if 6E is a lackluster product, and GW raise prices on their product in a speculator fashion then I may reconsider my opinion and allocate my hobby budget elsewhere.
Price point: I see you quoted a couple of 1/35 scale model kits in order to compare them to GW kits of similar type. Firstly, those are static kits primarily used in dioramas. The first example provided (weighing in at a hefty 86.00 dollars) is a metal/plastic kit that is described as a limited edition that comes pre-assembled and painted. The fact that it is described as having an open face package leads me to believe the model to be more of a show piece. So, comparing that to a Land Raider, or a Storm Raven is moot because those kits do not retail assembled and painted.
The next example you provided was a Tamiya tank kit, again primarily used for dioramas. This kit doesn't come assembled or painted, and it isn't listed as a limited edition, so it's price is a great deal cheaper. This model is closer in price point to current Rhino/Razorback tank prices, which seems fair. The price point for this hobby is already high, especially when one must consider the need to 'spam' units in order to build a competitive force, or army.
That is another reason that Dust Warfare excites me; the price point on their models and kits are considerably lower than Games Workshop.
I'm not sure if the last sentence is directed at me, or perhaps a generalized statement. In case it was in response to me, I will iterate that I am looking forward to 6E. My hope for 6E is that it is more concise and better defined than 5th.
There hasn't been a game that I have participated in, or have watched as a spectator, that some rule or phase was not questioned or debated. That's huge, and is explainable because 40K is a 'beer and pretzels' game rather than a competitive game. That is quoted directly from Games Workshop. That doesn't mean that Games Workshop cannot produce and promote clear, concise rules for their game system(s). Let the players decide how tight or loose those rules should be- more decisions made by the consumer is always a good thing.
Ultimately, the new rules coupled with how prices are increased (and by how much) will determine whether or not I will support Games Workshop as a company and continue to invest in their product. I am a consumer that exercises Brand loyalty and that isn't going to change for Games Workshop (or any other Company for that matter).
Well reasoned answer. The reality is, we're all tightening ourt belts and anything that causes us pain in that regard is going to seem some hefty scrutiny, but it would receive almost none if we didn't care. I like that people care. I just want them to be fair minded, look around and see that the prices are not bizarely removed from reality. Diorama or not, that's what Our models would be too if there were no rules for them. But there are. The R&D costs for the company far exceed those of the average model company. They are involved on a whole other level that costs them money.
ReplyDeleteI agree that we need to hold their feet to the fire when it comes to a good ruleset. 8th Edition proved that Fantasy players at minimum certainly will do just that. Lord of the Rings sales dropped 80% last year. That's telling and enormously relevant.
I am just trying to get people not to freak out and start making bold declarations or threats when GW hasn't even committed the crime of not meeting our expectations on 6E yet. Let them commit the crime before we kill 'em for it.
"Let the players decide how tight or loose those rules should be- more decisions made by the consumer is always a good thing."
ReplyDeleteThat should read," more choices presented to the consumer is always a good thing."